Stolen from Lisa E. Scott’s Facebook page. Because this is pretty much the summary of the Army’s message. (The problem, of course, is that for most narcissists, “asshole” is too big of a word, too. Try, “go”.)
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Recall the time I told him he was narcissistic and he responded: What’s that”? he knew damn well what that was I told him it’s a type of self sick love, someone who loves themselves so much that they have to leave the door open when they take a shower so the mirrors dont steam up and they can look at themselves – I thought using this humor approach would evoke some type of response or understanding on his part but of course he had nothing to say in my calling him a narcissist. Any other name I called him such as selfish, liar and asshole only resulted in gaslighting and projection in the purest form – he had to make sure I questioned myself to the extent of what HE really was. For the most part I was not ALLOWED to question him or he would punish me for it – if I caught him in a lie I was instantly crazy unstable and paranoid. After awhile I would just let him lie to me it grew to be quite amusing for me to actually witness that he thought he was fooling me. This is where you find out they are STUPID toads ha ha They do become lab experiments when you stay with them too long. However, NOT a healthy place to be for myself. I guess you can call them anything you want but dont call them anything clinical or anything that is in the science books – for the most parts they are freaks!!
I do have to say, this is one of my favorite E-cards ever. Right about the time I was discovering what a narcissist was, and that no, the man who was putting me through the roller coaster from Hell wasn’t NORMAL, just a NARC, I posted this up on FB. He never saw it, since I had blocked him from my FB account a month or so earlier, but my friends did and got a kick out of it. Thanks for sharing this little ditty! It took me 6 months to finally get it through my head that he’s a sick, twisted, evil “human”, but when the realization REALLY hit, it’s so good not to feel love for him anymore. Just pity. And even that is limited because really, I choose not to even think of him. Get that ladies? I CHOOSE. It’s a choice, and it’s yours to make. And once you committ yourself to that choice, life is so much simpler. It still hurts. I think it will always hurt, because we saw a good side at one time, right? Realizing that “good side” was a mask, a facade, hurts. But reality is better than any drug. I can’t believe I was in such a haze for so many years. Now that the blinders are off, though, the world has become a beautiful place. Each day I grow stronger, each day I discover more about real people, real experiences, real love. The hurt is there, but it fades. I don’t dwell on it. I dwell on the positive, the absolutely amazing people around me, and push those thoughts of him and his cruelty aside. He’s only one person, and in this big picture called LIFE, we can’t let ONE person rue the day.
Just found your site after more than a year of narc/sociopath/psychopath NC and in-depth study, why hadn’t I heard of you before?; you are hilarious and have given me a new perspective on the tragedy that was my ex.
Do you have any insight into why you call him a narcissist but he really sounds just like a psychopath and/or sociopath and/or narcissistic sociopath?? They do the EXACT SAME THINGS. Calling them merely narcissists seems to let them off the hook somewhat when, really, they are social predators.
Before I tangled with and fell in love with one, I thought narcissists were selfish people who were vain but not necessarily lacking in conscience (and I think that’s how most people view narcissists). And I thought psychopaths were serial killers (as the majority of the general public seems to still believe).
The guy who almost destroyed me (and maybe he already has; the jury’s still out on that) was much, much more than a self-centered dandy who couldn’t pass a mirror without a lingering look (but he did that too). He clearly tried to destroy me while doing the same to other women simultaneously (one killed herself and another tried, and those are just the ones I found out about).
So do you think there’s a difference between narcs and spaths?
Abbri: Boy, this question has been asked by many – and as much as I have studied personality disorders I still remain confused in this area as you have addressed. I can only tell you what I DO know for sure – a psychopath has no conscience or remorse – I am sure you are familiar with Thomas Sheridan’s books and his study on psychopathy – Sheridan outlines the five key traits in this short video http://youtu.be/X7v7GFA0fUM However, Sheridan has also explained the term psychopath is the term used now as opposed to sociopath that was used many years ago. So we know sociopath and psychopath are the same…..
as far as narcissism – I think this term is also being used more broadly now to define the behavior of a psychopath – I believe there are varying degrees of the disorder – I also believe some narcissists do have a conscience but are simply ill equipped to empathize and understand the pain of others – I think a person can manifest narcissistic behaviors without being a full fledged psychopath – who lacks empathy and a conscience – I hope Aunt Alex can intervene here – if you are a psychopath you are also a narcissist, but if you are a narcissist you arent necessarily a psychopath – I have heard this statement OFTEN – I also had the unfortunate experience of a psychopath who wanted to destroy me – he enjoyed my pain and wanted nothing more than to destroy my values and morals – thank GOD I was strong enough to never give in to his perverted requests – I at least walked away with some dignity from the monster. You stated that you thought psychopaths were serial killers etc…… your right they are – all psychopaths are killers even the ones we were with – some draw blood and some dont – they are ALL killers and I realize that now more than ever – hugs
This is a great question. The short answer: There’s a difference, but it’s not meaningful for our purposes. The Army doesn’t care. Neither arsenic nor gasoline are good in a pie, and neither narcissists nor sociopaths are good in any kind of relationship. An important point. We’ll post about it.
He told me that he knew that in order for our 9 year relationship to work, he would have to acknowledge my existence.
Little does he know that YOU were the only real and genuine person in the relationship that existed – HE NEVER DID –
Yes, I have read Thomas Sheridan’s Puzzling People and have been a member on his site (although he recently left it in the hands of others), psychopathfree.com, for quite awhile.
More and more, I’m starting to think there should be just one word to describe all those disordered Cluster B individuals who inevitably do incredible damage to others, whether they mean to or not (narc vs. psych). And that there is a continuum on which to “rate” their degree of disorder, i.e. narcs with some conscience on the bottom and serial killers on top. Maybe they should all just be called “Cluster B’s” or something. It would make it easier to teach the general public to avoid them all, whether they are “merely” narcissists or serial killers or anything in between.
It will be interesting to see how the revised DSM handles it when it comes out next year. I’ve heard they are changing terminology, that narcissistic personality disorder is out, but then I heard they kept it in. So who knows?
I’d be REALLY happy if they included a category for those who have been victimized by Cluster B’s, rather than just lumping us under depression, or PTSD, or anxiety disorder.
Cluster B’s – I agree, because there are such varying degrees of this disorder – I know that there are narcs that exist that truly want to be loved but are ill equipped to empathize with others – then you have the KING of Cluster B’s – the killers, the ones TOTALLY void of conscience and remorse – the love thieves, con men and severely sexually deviated ones – who manifest sexual addictions, are into S & M and degrading and destroying others – many narcs are NOT set out to destroy their partners they have no hidden agendas and they do not wear a mask of pretense like the psychopath does – so there is a difference – there are so many types of personality disorders and/or behaviors -just because someone has a personality disorder does not mean they are a psychopath – I believe Thomas Sheridan’s 5 key traits are what constitute a psychopath perfectly; the mask and pretense, the mirroring, the love bombing to create a false bond is indicative of psychopathic behavior. This is the nature of the beast that predated me. When we watch a documentary on a serial killer on tv I doubt the average person will say Gee, he must be narcissistic – what do they say – he is a psycho – all your serial killers lure their victims by a mask pretending to be something they are not – same method as creating a love illusion to destroy their targets – anyway just my 2 cents —
Whatever I call him, whatever disorder he has… the damage is done. Time to recover. How nice to be able to learn, grow and heal far away from the slimy little creep… at 51, I am finally learning about these damaged men and looking forward to living the rest of my life in peace. Knowledge is power… thanks!
I agree with cindy lu,the damage is done.The damage is huge after 28 years!
My kids (in their twenties)are having difficulties coping with all this,a psycho-
pathic father,and sometimes it seems they too don’t believe me,like many
people don’t,because i kept quiet for so long!But then,some long lost friends
I am back in contact with,always knew there was something very wrong with him,but they were afraid to say something about it to me,hoping that I was
happy with him….trying to work hard on myself these days,it’s not easy,but I’ll get there one day!And yes,knowledge is power indeed,Thank God there’s
so much to read and study!!
Astrid: 28 YEARS you suffered with a pathological marriage – WOW – knowing it was a lie or an illusion he created for you – this is how they all operate with their partners – they lead so many different lives behind their partners/wives back – Its as if you dont even know who you were really living with when all is said and done. – you are now living in truth, no matter how difficult the days are you are on the side of truth – hugs
Last year the abuse got worse. Constant nagging about my low pay job. I got some schooling and a new job in healthcare. He got worse…ignoring me for days at a time. Looking at me with disgust when I was dressed in my scrubs. Told me I should have 2 or 3 jobs so we could afford nice vacations like so and so… he is a $40 an hour union guy… I got some self esteem at work and I didn’t worship him anymore. I was respected at work. He began talking to a gal 1500 miles away he went to school with. Then he abruptly threw me out!!! He said I had no dreams and no ambition… I took care of his house, the horses, dogs, cats, mowed a 2 acre yard and worked full time… hmmmm…I had no choice but to move in with Mom, 150 miles away. Goodbye new job. Goodbye friends and goodbye beloved animals… watched me struggle to pack and watched while friends and family helped me. Not a word did he say and not a dime did he offer to cover their 300 mile round trip… Tho he forgot my birthday and ruined another birthday… Last night he was 1500 miles away at her birthday party…been planning it for months… Guess a handsome, delightful man like him deserves a good party… right? He also texted me after he threw me out to say I should have hugged him goodbye so we could have parted as friends!!!!!! My question…now that the party is over and he will return to his job and all the chores I used to do…should I prepare for his phone call????
Its hard to say, he may try getting another enabler to use or a cash cow – how horrible to degrade you because you didnt make as much as him – what you make does not define success – surgeons dress in scrubs also doubt very much it was the scrubs that provoked these dirty looks – he is a USER, ABUSER and LOSER and he worked you to death and used you for what he could get out of you – rotten, horrible person – change your number so you never hear from the rotten person again – rather than preparing for his hoovering or phone call prepare for a better life without him hugs
Yes! A better life! Already feel the knots in my belly loosening…after nine years of being there…guess I just got used to that constant ache? Also noticing less pain in my joints and back… fewer headaches too…Was he actually slowly killing me with all of that cruelty???? How do we women let this happen to us? Where was I? Looking back, he is not that amazing…how did he cast that spell? I was turning inside out for him…
Cindy lu – how do we let this happen to us? That is a million dollar question and when we find the answers we are indeed rich!!!! They cast that spell because they pretended to be everything they knew we always wanted – Cindy, who does that? If my x path would have appeared in my life as he REALLY was I would have run like hell – this was not our fault and even the fact that we stayed was not our fault – we were conned, manipulated and brainwashed and lived in a world of denial – sometimes I think it was the shock that we had to work through – it took time for the truth and reality to catch up with our hearts – its like being with someone that is two entirely different people – for you he is one person and for another he is Mr Wonderful – but Mr Wonderful really does not exist – he never existed for you and he doesnt exist for others- its a catch 22 in a way. 9 years of this you endured, be thankful it was not longer – 10,15,20 years – the ones that stayed 20 years wake up one day and realize their whole LIFE was a lie – 20 years of your life living a lie with a psychopath – I spent 5 years living the con and lie and that was quite enough yet his mask dropped after a year and I STILL stayed until I finally figured out why I chose men that abused me – its very hard to correct – it was harder than letting him go and going totally NC. – I caused my own pain by staying with a F’d up person – if you turn this into a wake up call for yourself he will become NOTHING – he will become what he really is – NOTHING and you will become what you have always meant to be –
In my humble opinion, women (nor men) “let” this happen to them, any more than people “let” a car go through a stop sign and hit them broadside. It just happens, without any lapses on the part of the victims. But once we know they aren’t what they pretend to be, and that this will never change, it’s up to the innocent to cut their losses.
I agree somewhat, Alex. I never consciously hooked up with narcissists, but after having been crushed by three full- fledged toads and doing some deep soul searching about why this keeps happening to me, I have come to realize that they all gave off red flags that I ignored. I also am ashamed to admit that with all three I was completely mesmerized by them at the beginning- I now know that if I get that feeling about a man, I need to RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK. No person is so great that they deserve that level of adoration. I now recognize that I am re-experiencing the dysfunctional relationship I had with both parents when I get that feeling of being swept away. And I know it is toxic. Never again.
I have been spending the last few days enjoying your site. I have to share that it has been incredibly helpful! One area that isn’t often discussed are female N’s and especially in the gay community. I unfortunately went from a relationship with one who I believe was a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder (physically abusive) to a woman who is an N. The second time around, with the N, the flags went up pretty fast and for some reason I reached my bottom quickly (feelings of worthlessness, despondent, wanting to die) and instead of staying there it pushed me forward and all the ways my N told me I was flawed and should do this and do that to be a better person..so I did them! I am doing things for myself that I never thought I could do. It’s as if her criticisms had no power over me. She saw how happy I was to finally be empowered and live my life to the fullest and she hated it in her covert subtle I can’t show emotion sort of way. She would say “you don’t always have to be so happy” Who the hell says that to another person?!! It’s not to say I was able to stay away, because I couldn’t but I did break it off. and she wants a piece of my happy life and sometimes I give it and then I am back on the rollercoaster. We had/have back and forth, you know the drill. Now that my life is getting really good and she has all but practically stolen my entire identity from my healthy living, to exercise, to attending school once again, I think she’s afraid of losing me so that her identity will be compromised. I still find myself not wanting to admit she is an N. I know she is as I read and read and research and I relate to all this information and other peoples experience and I remember my own confusion and disbelief and questioning of my own self. I am feeling much more capable of getting her out of my life each and every day as I practice no contact and recognize how wonderful I feel when she’s not laying it on. Thank you.
cindy lu – make sure you never contact either one of them again now ha ha do ya think? DUH is right – NO BRAINER Like those words have the power to hurt you telling you to not contact them again – WOW what a loss for you eh? lol nothing gets to them more than YOUR SILENCE, our words will never reach them because they basically are not human as we are but our silence does and I know its difficult because we dont get to witness or know how it bothers them – my NC was my final SCREW YOU to him – screw you for what you did to me and I showed him I had the strength to get him out of my life forever – nothing bothers them more than the ones that get out and get away no matter what they say. hugs
Got a text this morning…admonishing me for NOT taking a call from his “friend ” the birthday girl and warning me not to contact either of them ever again… duh …. I did not respond.. do I call the wireless provider to block him? Do they ALL talk in circles?
block or change your number – kill him off as he killed the illusion and lie he played for you – show him what the silent treatment really is
OMG! jeez , my brain is full of so much info after reading new and old posts. I loved all the info because it is what I have been looking for and ready to hear. I guess when you got it in your head to start building yourself back up(EMPOWERMENT) and stop looking for the approval of a total jerk life does a 360. I am no longer reading articles that keep me in the victim role such as , ” If he loves me why does he call me names”, “7 signs that you are in an abusive relationship”, Is he a narciss? ”
Yes a narciss is full of only him, him, and him. My brain was numb for awhile. I was traumatized as to why is he was doing all these decietful things to me if I was never cruel to him. I wanted out of a 10 year relationship(with kids), he went completely OVER THE EDGE even after he agreed to do it civilized.
When I left him because he was a compulsive liar, physical and emotionally abusive , I thought I was walking away from the worst part of my life. I thought WOW I am done, I am free, my kids are FREE. I was WRONG. I walked into a war zone. The first thing that happened when I left, I got a restraining order and went to a battered woman’s shelter 2. I absolutely made NO contact with him. 3. I put distance . One week after I left, I had DCF contact me with abuse allegations( ex called and said I poisoned kids). he then made allegations to Social security administration and said I mishandled his funds( I provided bank statement everything cleared up). He made numerous of false police reports in the county we lived in but they knew he was full of it. I left to a different county , he also moved there and started making false police reports, and I was under investigation by detectives. I had to turn myself in because there was a warrant out for my arrest( Oh GOD!!). I was arrested for harassing phone calls. I went to jury trial and I was found not guilty when my attorney got his phone records and it showed up that I never called him.He almost got me arrested again 1 year later, but a federal agent intervened and it went straight to an investigation , it showed up that I never called him. I was put under address confidentiality in the state I lived in. He has tried to get 11 protective orders against me , the judges never granted them because he was full of sh-t. He has moved to 3 different counties in order to start new in a place where they did not know him and start the false allegations once again. This is only a short version of the story. Every week he would make something up!! and would pull me back into his drama. I did get a permanent restraining order and sole custody of kids. I could never express of how betrayed and hurt I felt. I could not understand why he would do so much damage when first, ” I was not taking his kids away 2. I wanted no money, 3. I just wanted out!! I wanted out!.
What the hell, I was always about live and let live , and here was someone that was on a search to destroy mission in the worse way!! He is trying to take away my freedom, my life !! There is so much more to this . I wish I could just walk away from all this hurt ( hang it up), but all I can do is go through stages of recovery and feel as strong as I used to.
Thanks for creating this forum. I like the fact that you put in humor along with a serious topic. I love to laugh. :)))))) Thank you Auntie.
I fell upon this site by accident. It is “comforting” to know that I am not the crazy one.
Just got out of a 2 1/2 year long distance relationship with an N.
OMG!!! What stories I could tell…from charming, charismatic, devoted, loving…to a monster. A wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Contradicting “rules” in the relationship, double standards…”do what I say but not what I do”. All justified. He is a devout Christian (or so he professes to be), he is a man and that warrants him to be able to things that women cannot do, his Christianity permitted him to seek out women on singles’ websites…ONLY because they were in need of spiritual guidance and a Christian friend…is anybody laughing yet??? I am.
Blamed his ex-wife for everything…she was insane and took his home, his business (which he ran from home), turned his children against him…he, of course, was the perfect husband and father…and she, because of her insanity, just woke up one morning after 20+ years of marriage and decided that she was going to take him to the cleaners…OK….
At first…I believed it…felt bad for him…tried to be compassionate…listened to the endless hours of misery that he spewed out nightly during our phone conversations…it drained me emotionally. I was exhausted.
The moment I started recommending he “let it go”…”move on”…”forgive” (as devout Christians should)…he changed…he became aggressive, impatient…started dissecting me, my family, my friends…
When I caught him (in writing) in a lie….he would deny it. If I sent him the proof he would say that I had stressed him out to the point where he could not remember what he had said or not said. The stories always changed…he lied to protect me, he lied because he knew that I would have gotten angry (I was always angry by the way), he badmouthed me to everybody and anybody who would listen…many have approached me since and said…”thank God you are no longer with him”.
If I questioned a “friendship” with a female which I felt was a little too cozy…he would tell me that I was insecure, jealous, difficult…and that it was my past hurts that were getting the best of me.
I was a “well kept” secret…nobody was to know about us…God forbid should his friends or family assume that we may be intimate…he, the devout Christian…no premarital sex…LOL!!!! When I saw him for the first time…he jumped all over me in the car in the underground parking of the airport…
When I asked what was going on… and what happened to all the Godly talk…he said…”well, I just cannot keep my hands off of you and I will repent to God during my prayers later”.
Yep…that was his out. No matter what he did, what he said, how he behaved…he thought that all he had to do was repent and all was well.
God has a full-time job with this man…between the lies, the deceit, the manipulation, the cheating, the promiscuity, the violence, the emotional abuse….and the list goes on.
I withdrew months before it ended….started making excuses why I couldn’t talk…wouldn’t be home…he must have sensed it and ended the relationship with a very well written word document letter that he sent to me in an email attachment.
Was I surprised…no.
He has contacted me numerous times since…it goes from loving and kind to nasty and mean if I don’t respond.
I have had the confirmation of so many ugly things since our split…from reliable sources…scary! Worse than I could have ever imagined.
He lied…he did cheat…he was violent with his ex-wife…this is a pattern.
He just recently sent me a very long email…a declaration of love letter…telling me how much he still loves me, how much he wants me in his life…bla, bla….
I know none of it is true. His other attention sources but be running cold or dry.
His words are hollow.
And if I get the slightest moment of emotion for him…I reread his disgusting emails to me…the ones where he spews out all the poison about how he really feels about me….and suddenly I am ok again.
Since our split…I feel better. I sleep better. I am more in sync with myself and my needs…he sucked the life right out of me…he tried to rob me of me…no way never!!!!!
I crawled out of the hell hole where he lives and I am never going back.
Lili – sounds like a devote christian just as mine is a pillar to the community in his Sheriffs uniform – now we can BOTH LAUGH!!!!! Nothing like a psychopath predator to hide behind is profession to give him power and at the same time HIDE who he is – reminds me of Gacey who dressed up as a clown so he could get near small boys to kill – I crawled out of that same hell hole you did, I am surprised I didnt see you on the way up – lol Of course non of what they say is true – I would tell him you will pray for him so that he may find peace with God – he is no more a christian than Drew Peterson is – they are sick sick men who hide behind disguises that can bring them power, and control to fool their targets – they are thugs, rapists and love thieves – they rape women and destroy lives – maybe you will one day have the priviledge of being able to throw ice chips at him as he is in hell – on second thought let him burn for the hell he put you through – as the bible says – an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth – hugs
Wow, they are all the same. I thought it was my ex-P you were writing about when reading your story, except for the devout Christian thing. Mine was an ex-Marine and played THAT game to the hilt. But, his ex-wife was also “insane”. And he’d try the “loving and kind” thing to reach me and, if that didn’t work, then the mean and nasty thing. It’s like they all took a class or something….
Abbri – yes they are all the same. Isn’t it a consolation!! Yes they are carbon-copies of each other…so much for originality. I have done so much reading on Narcissistic personality disorder…amazing!!! It is what keeps me focused and strong. Mine fit every single ugly trait of the disorder.
Yes…loving…caring….lonely…empty….and then, BLINK….you are worthless, angry, unstable, hateful etc….
Mine sent me a message stating that he wished I would just vanish because nobody likes or stays with my kind. MY KIND??? What kind is that…the normal kind…the genuine kind…the honest kind….and the irony is that he was the one constantly contacting me….I had vanished.
Oh well….at least we can laugh…humour will get us through all this.
They may have all taken a class….”jerk 101″, or “monsters R us” but we are also taking a class…a self-defense class….we will protect ourselves…we will grow stronger and stronger and still come out of it BEAUTIFUL people…the people we were before they sucked us into their sewer!
They are like vampires…I for one have invested in some thick turtle necks and garlic necklages.
Hug to you Abbri
Awake…love that you can laugh and make me laugh. Laughter…isn’t it the best therapy??? God, yes!
Yes…devout Christian…he could not stop telling me that he had gone to the same church for almost 30 years….ok. Bravo!!!! And whenever I would have an issue…he would tell me that I needed a touch from God…or a healing….OH I GOT MY HEALING!!! Him out of my life!!!
If I confronted him about something…it was Satan…yes, Satan that was playing mind games with me…Satan that had taken over my thoughts and emotions…Woaw!!! Imagine my surprise to find out that all the things I disliked about my ex N were Satan’s doing…go figure. In a roundabout way I guess my ex N was admitting that he was Satan.
Well…I guess these jerks all have to hide behind something…mine was God. Poor God.
They certainly can pretend to be something they are not…all my ex N’s friends think he is wonderful…sweet guy, caring, generous, helpful etc….
There is nothing real about him…fake, fake, fake….fraud, fraud, fraud….
One funny thing was that this man had a large “spare tire” that had taken up residence around his mid-section….but it wasn’t a large stomach or a gut…oh no…it was bloating…yes, bloating. A medical mystery…bloating that never leaves and is everpresent 24/7… I often wondered if his diet consisted of sponges…which would explain the bloating but no.
Just one more thing that he could not accept about himself. Bloating….please…LOL!!!!!!!!
Then again…maybe it was God’s work that he had the spare tire…and if so, who would argue with God.
I remember at the beginning of our relationship…he would send me scriptures…pages and pages of them…and then on the phone he would ask me all these personal “sexual” questions…I told him that he was either my priest or my boyfriend but couldn’t be both…unless he thought I was Rachel from the “thorn birds”.
Scary…all the signs were there…
And yes…Awake…I must have been too busy focusing on the sunlight and a breath of fresh air on my way up and out of the darkness to see you…sorry…I would have waved had I.
What comes around goes around….
Hugs to you : – )
“Your Kind?” Yeah, not willing to listen to his crap anymore(funny).
I met my narc four years ago. I’m married 30 years. He is quite younger and extremely handsome. The abuse started and stopped this whole time. I am amazed I stayed with him. Keeping him constant companion through ex girlfriends, new girlfriends now wife and child. Both which he didnt even tell me about. I was his toy. When he did tell me i cried. I loom back and and not sure he cared he hurt me. I think he got a thrill seeing that hes a pro at this game. He got his long time co dependent pregg and married being from a strong religious family. We work together and NC for me is a struggle. He knows I weak for him. We have pictures, not to reviling, but pictures none the less. I use to think I was so lucky to be with him …constantly talking and having fun.. He knew my life wasn’t great but still went after me. Now I know what all this narc stuff is. I had no idea. Raised a family. Now I’m in quite a mess. He’s gone from a wonderful person to a horrible man. I now know life outside of his is meaning less. This is never ending. Slowly we are stopping. He’s very angry and always had been. Not so much towards me but everything else. When I found out his behavior with other “victims” , I stopped. Slowly. Carefully because of how abusive. Verbally he became. It’s quite scary that he has my life in his hands. I am trying no contact but he’s doing what I am learning is hovering. I know he’s talking to other people at my office about me. He calls me to come to his desk. Only, I sure, to show people how I want him. When the truth is, he won’t stop this game with me. The more I stop, the more aggressive he becomes. I’m scared to lose my job and I can’t stop thinking of terrible things I want to do to him. He’s making me suffer He comes to my desk, calls me in the halls at my office ,, just so I can see him and realize what I’m missing. I feel bad for his wife and the new supply he’s getting. I can point them out because they are weak and stupid like I was. I wish I could discuss this with someone but I can’t. So far my family and work have suffered. I almost pray my husband would do something to him. Make him see that he’s not this god and he can’t sweet talk women who are weak and venerable. I don’t think anyone could resist him. He’s actually said that too. After I found out what a narc was, he’s classic NPD. I knew nothing and am amazed this is so common. Why was I so unprepared?. Why didn’t I know what this was? I am what I thought, a smart sensible woman. How could this happen to me. Then I realize that I was missing something in my life. That’s really what it’s about. There is no one to blame but myself. I wasn’t strong enough to stop a player from playing me. And he will keep doing it because he’s full of hate for women. I’m not sure what I’m going to do. My fear is losing my family and job. I could write a book and this. And basically I have. When I realized early on. I kept a journal. Kept the voice recordings of his calls. Kept his pictures. It’slike. I knew I’d need this for proof that I was dealing with a sick person. People may have heard what I’ve done, but they don’t know what I’ve been though. If I could show you the pictures he’s sent me. Omg.
I have a friend who feared for her life when she was living with her x path and she had to plan her leaving very carefully – the path would actually check her clothes to see if any were missing – and actually there were clothes missing she would throw older clothes in the mix to make it look like nothing had changed – when she was ready she packed 4 suit cases and in those suit cases were her life and she got on a train moved over 1500 miles away to escape him – she tried moving back to her old apartment and all he would do is stalk her she knew she had to leave and move far far away – SOME paths are stalker, some arent – depends on the path.
Just Trying to do no contact never works, you must devise a plan for total no contact – Sheridan says if you work with him – LEAVE, get a different job in the book Snake with Suits it states they will totally destroy your career if you are their target and you work with them – NEVER put yourself in a position at work in where you are alone with him – NEVER always make sure others are around to witness and hear his behavior – and you can bet with others listening he will be on his best fake behavior. I too have kept his VM as a back up to save my ass if he should ever come back to destroy my life – wonder how his little wife would like to hear the nasty, sick vm he has left me? Mine transformed from a prince to a psycho sexual predator – So glad he lives three hours away, his live in GF/wife whatever she is can have him, he is all hers – she can have all his sickness, perversion, lying, cheating, and dangerous behavior – he is a sick sick sick man and I cringe thinking I was once with him – UGH
You cannot blame yourself.
I read something the other day about how N’s ONLY think of themselves and co-dependants only think of others. I believe that we are all co-dependants. We always want to see the best in people, justify their behavior, make excuses….because we are nurturers. We want to “fix” these people and believe that with time, love, devotion, dedication etc…it’ll happen.
The problem is we lose ourselves in this…we do not take care of ourselves…we ALLOW people to take advantage of us and abuse us.
We, as co-dependants, do not have healthy relationship with ourselves…we only seem to find self-worth when we are bending over backwards for everybody else.
We have to change. Selfishness is not a crime.
My psychiatrist once told me that I would always set myself up for disspointment. I was always doing things for others and expecting praise, gratitude, thanks, appreciation….from them. When it didn’t happen (which was 99% of the time), I would be miserable, upset, hurt…
So now I try to do things for me…and me alone.
I went out yesterday and purchased a Christmas tree. A real one. Majestic. Its aroma is amazing and has filled my home with that wonderful “Christmas scent”. I put it in the car myself, dragged it into the house myself, set it up myself…and once its branches have come down, I will decorate it myself (the way I want to).
I didn’t ask for help. I won’t be asking for approval. I did it for ME! And I will enjoy it.
One day, I know, I will come across somebody who will want to appreciate ME for who I am and bask in my kindness, love, devotion, commitment etc…but until that day…I will appreciate ME, love ME, enjoy ME.
They are all crazy…the N’s we have allowed to manipulate us and try and destroy us. We cannot change who they are but we certainly can stop these predators from entering our lives.
We are beautiful people and we deserve beauty in return.
Alone does not mean lonely.
Best of luck to you
Lilli – this was so much of my problem, I gained my self esteem and self worth by doing for others and expecting recognition in return – GOT NONE from the path and get NONE from my husband – not to say they are not wrong for never recognizing our efforts, of course they are wrong but they wont see it or recognize us for it because they are NOT RIGHT – a healthy partner will love and cherish these thoughtful things we do – when the recognition is mutual it goes without saying that both partners make each other feel good about themselves – a narc will make you feel bad about yourself every single day you are with them – I did this for YEARS picked out our tree, sawed the stem, put it up and asked and wanted no help from my husband when it was all said and done and the tree was up he would say NOT ONE WORD – and that;s ok I dont need his approval anymore – I truly think they do this on purpose or they will look for some flaw in ANYTHING we do when the only flaws are truly within themselves for never seeing good in others – we must learn to see the good in ourselves and we will then attract those who are giving like ourselves – damn right we deserve what we give in return until then I have ME – I will never waste the good I am to someone who is disordered, NEVER AGAIN and I will NEVER blame myself because they dont recognize me – THEY are to blame for not knowing how to have a mutual, real and meaningful relationship = THEY are to blame for the way they are NOT US –
I use to think quiting my job was not an option. I am starting to think otherwise. Your right Awake, that I should never be alone with him at work. Hes starting to get aggressive phyically. I spend years stopping at his desk and we always talked and had no issues. We wanted to see each other. I was so wrong to do all this. Is it my fault. I totally knew it was wrong but I was too weak and truthfully wanted the attention. The last months of phone calls and visits at the office have turned abusive. Reading more, I see the pattern associatd with NPD. The last visit he got physical. Actually told me to not move and he grabbed me. I havent been back since. He angry and has been abusive. I fear alot right now. I think its interesting that Awake also has kept the VM. At first I kept them because they were sweet, fun to listen to!! Then the journal and vms we kept incase I need this info. But what good would it do. Im married, older and long time employee..I am screwed no matter. But I will never be in a situation where I am alone at the office again. I have to answer the phone when it rings, one, because I am sitting there! And two, because he is really mad when I dont. I am more fearful of his revenge than anything else.
Again, I wont change who I am, or see doctors because of him. This was his plan when he started, I just didnt know what I was dealing with. He actually told me his ex had to see a dr, another had to get a boob job.. Why was I even talking to him? Unreal. My fault, my problem. I just hope it doesnt get worse. He would come so hard on me, make me crazy and weak. When I reject him and tell him no and to stop, he’d start sending pictures of his wife and his cute baby, as if to show me, look what I got. I dont need you.. Then he’d shut down only to come back again and again.
HIs wife knows exactly what shes married to. Shes know him for years. No ones that dumb. If push comes to shove with him and he ruins my family, job, I come down hard. His family, everyone will get those recordings..
But I hate to think of that every happening. I hate playing his game.
The truth is, hes ruined my marriage and family.Soon it will be my job.
Id like to shared a few things hes told me over the years..
Youre lucky your so beautiful, or I wouldnt be talking to you.
Your smile brightens my day.
YOure as beautiful on the inside as the outside.
After one day of some teasing, I mentioned he teases too much and My friend said I should be careful of him.. he told me to let him talk to her.. see if she can resist him..
Sorry about the book here. Im thinking a blog would help me!!
Get it all out!
I want to say that reading all these postings Im lucky to have met the man I married young. Never was exposed to terrible people like my N. I have great compassion for people who dealt with NPD and how they get through it. Im challenged each day and reading such positive comments is really an eye opener. Ive read I shouldnt blame myself 100%, but what kind of person am I to get involved with such a muniplator. Unreal. I knew what kind of person he was. I felt like I could help make his life happier. I know I did early on. But once HIs NPD kicked in, I should of stopped.
“What do you got for me?” One of his favorite lines!! HA!
I know how dangerous the situation can get. The lying they use to con you into a relationship is the same lying they will use to hurt you. No contact and tell someone in authority your fear make some kind of record, be the first one to complain, start making a track record and write everything down.
These guys are dangerous in a lot of ways I think. Their lies and false life exposes us to std’s, mental breakdowns, loss of family, friends, home, jobs, money… the list is endless… At the end of the relationship, after being disgarded so cruelly, I actually wanted to die. I am so glad I am alive! Knowledge is the key to walking through the grief and confusion. Grieving a relationship that was not real has been a struggle, but that is because I am real… The truth DOES set you free. My days are filled with flecks of hope now… it is a start…
Yes…lies…lies and more lies…deceit, manipulation, betrayal….and on and on..What has helped me cope is that I know now that the person I loved, cared for, cherished…etc…did not exist. He was not the person I thought he was. He was not the person he wanted me to believe he was. HE WAS NOT. So…how can I miss, grieve or be sad over the loss of something that didn’t exist and never did? I cannot.
This is the way I have chosen to look at this…it has helped.
To All: I have tried to figure out why psychopaths are pathological liars – perhaps its because they have no true self and they have so many different faces they wear for different people that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to be truthful? They LIE to provoke fights so they can leave the house and be with their other affairs, they LIE where they have been, they lie where they are going, they LIED upon their whole predation of us, promising us the world and giving us NOTHING but pain – they can even lie when they dont have to lie, they lie what they ate for dinner; every word he ever spoke to me was a LIE and yes their lies destroy lives – they lie to gain our trust then they LIE to cover up who they really are through out the entire relationship – they lie to everyone and everybody they know; wives, GF’s, lovers, family, – People of the Lie (its a great book) there you go, they lie so much that a book is named People of the LIe after them lol There should be no Cog Dis or doubt that when we are and were discarded whoever they left us for is also swindled by this pathological liar – people who lie dont stop, its a sickness to lie like that – hell I even get into trouble when I have told small white lies – and yet they can tell dangerous dangerous HUGE lies about who they are ENTIRELY and get by with it – I dont get it – ? Someone that lies on that level should be found out much sooner than they are –
It helped me also to realize what I loved never existed – that person who created that persona for me was a psychopath – the psychopath created this illusion, having me believe I meant everything to him – when all I was was USED for what he needed me for; his live in GF is also being USED for what he needs her for – and it “AINT” LOVE – they dont need anyone for the reasons of love and they are not WITH anyone for reasons of love and this is what is so difficult for us to wrap around our minds. Its a horrible painful experience to encounter one of these dead people but I am so glad its behind me and the worst is over
“hell I even get into trouble when I have told small white lies – and yet they can tell dangerous dangerous HUGE lies about who they are ENTIRELY and get by with it – I dont get it – ? Someone that lies on that level should be found out much sooner than they are –”
I’ve pondered that for a long time–why does he keep getting away with it??
When he would tell me an obvious lie–something I would have laughed at if told by anyone else–and I would catch him in it, he would be SO INSISTENT that he wasn’t lying; he’d swear on his Nana’s grave (poor Nana!).
The vehemence of his denials caused me to doubt myself–doubt what I saw and heard and knew for a fact–and it happened so slowly and insidiously that I’m sometimes amazed I’m not in a straitjacket in some institution.
Abbri: I like it when they play the poor me pity act when trying to cover a lie that always seems to be their last resort in getting us to believe them or mine would say, “I am serious” and he would go into the whole lecture in how unstable and insecure I was – he actually told me once: “I HAVE NEVER LIED TO YOU” well yes you did by saying that lol it got to be that after a while I just let him lie and pretended I believed him ( I know that is sad) I stopped questioning him because it really didnt matter – it was at this point I knew I had to get him out of my life and I DID!! His lies now dont matter to me, he is such a seriously F’d up person that I rather pity what he is, anybody that takes them seriously or believes them will be totally destroyed – if you want to live in a love illusion and live with a person that is a walking lie its a sad life and my heart goes out to those who are living that way with them hugs Abbri
In fact, his denials could go on for DAYS until I was finally worn down and believed them only because I didn’t think that anybody would expend so much energy unless he was telling the truth. Of course, that was before I understood that there are psychopaths and narcissists walking among us….
do you think we ever truly get over something as traumatic as this? I know we get over THEM directly in realizing they are disordered and being targeted by these predators was in no way our fault – BUT I often wonder when the memories of this whole trauma will go away, I sometimes still have nightmares with the torturous triangulation this sicko did to me – dreams of having them show up and they never show – people in my dreams saying how much he loves her and what a beautiful couple they are – ha ha sometimes I wake up with my face wet from crying in my sleep – this man literally tortured me – he wanted me to love him and want him so he could ENJOY seeing me suffer. My suffering was his sick supply.
I am better now these past months but it took over a year to get there – sick, superficial, sadistic, perverted, twisted remorseless, , predator!!!!! He had eyes black as coal and they were piercing. What a nightmare it was in my everyday living – now they just creep in my sleep now and then – thank GOD
I think the trauma definitely changes us permanently in many ways–a loss of innocence in a way, understanding that there really are people out there who want to hurt us just for fun. I’m hopeful that something good will eventually come from it, especially after all the horrible things it caused, a better understanding of ourselves. Still waiting on that though….
I too have flashbacks and dream about him almost every night–I’m either waiting for him to show up and he never does (with the accompanying knot of dread in my stomach that I had in reality for 6 years) or he’s parading around with one girl or another under my nose. Pretty much like what our relationship really was, although not as obvious on his part.
And almost a year since our breakup (with a few unfortunate incidents in which NC was broken) I still think of him from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed. Not usually fondly (although sometimes still…) or even necessarily with anger or bitterness or regret. He’s just in my head, all the time. I’m getting so sick of it.
Maybe we can come back to this thought later but dont you also find it interesting or actually sickning I should say that all the psychological damage they made us feel about ourselves was no more real than they were? We suffered for NOTHING – but at the time it was very real to us – I suffered so deeply knowing he was going to remain with his live in GF thinking he loved her and I was second to him – when in truth he never had a genuine real loving relationship with her either he only made me believe he did – what a SICK thing to do to someone but of course they arent going to admit their OW mean nothing to them either – they wanted us to beg for them and beg for their love – that is part of the sick supply they are always seeking – now in hind sight looking back I realize what I left was a man who will never love anybody – everything bad about how they made us feel about ourselves was no more real than him –
Awake – I am not sure if we will ever, completely, overcome the ordeals that we went through. The difficult part is that I find myself falling into these moments of complete despair….not over losing “him” (the low life) but despair over feeling a total lack of trust and faith in mankind. I was always a trusting person…and now, I have this fear…fear of people. It is an awful feeling.
I find myself wanting to reach out to the world around me and then, in the blink of an eye, holding back and wanting to hide within the safety, security and comfort of my solitude.
There are good people out there…and I realize that if I remain confined within the walls of caution that I have built around myself, I may miss an opportunity to meet somebody who I can trust. But it is like standing on the edge of a cliff and hoping that the person below will catch me as I fall…
Sounds crazy doesn’t it?
I think it is just time…healing time that will enable me to allow myself to trust again…it’ll be a long process…a fragile one…but I trust that I will get there eventually.
My ex-N contacted me today…to wish me a Merry Christmas! Just an excuse to send me an email. He, of course, mentioned that he will be spending Christmas with his parents and family…and that the framed picture of us remains on one of the tables the living-room…bla, bla, bla…LIKE that is supposed to make me feel happy? loved? missed?….
This email comes after a 10-page letter, received in the mail last week…all written in paragraphs with tities “fact #1”, “fact #2” etc…with long and drawn out explanations (his version) of events and moments in our relationship when I doubted him, “accused” him of lying”….
The irony is that in the letter he actually admits to things that he denied over and over again when I confronted him about them…and swore that my doubts were all in my mind…and now, he admits to them. I am sure it was not deliberate…I think he just cannot keep track of all the lies.
Whatever…I am looking forward to the new year. A new chapter, a clean slate…
Hugs to all you ladies out there! Enjoy the holiday season.
To all – my pc isnt working right its taking forever to send and process – I think we are so very very fragile and raw even after we are healed (for the most part) and the slightest things trigger this trauma – I am always paranoid if someone reacts negatively with me, Iam sometimes so paranoid that I often think others are doing things behind my back, like some plot against me – its HORRIBLE but my trust has really been damaged – I need to work on that I dont know if my other reply went through but what I said was its been reported about these dreams of them never showing up – VERY common and that is attributed to the illusion – as we thought we were in a mutual relationship when there really was no relationship for the most part – only his pretense of what he pretended to be for us – they never show up in our dreams because they were never really with us in reality – and YES the only time he actually is IN my dreams is where he again is ignoring me and surrounded with other women – that must come from the torturing triangulating he did with me – its still there in my subconscience I guess. I have also had another dream the SAME dream in where I knock at his door and he never answers (go figure) and I know he is home because I can see him in the window – I think their pathology haunts us because its such a sick behavior to witness. We are out now and this bad man will never enter our lives again – good night all I am glad you are here to talk to – sometimes the pain is ever so severe –
I am paranoid as well. I feel like people are going to take advantage of my ever so trusting nature. I genuinely want to trust again. I think I will I just need some time away from the kaos.
Recommended:The great pretender, by Freddy Mercury-Youtube!!
To all my ex-narc sisters and brothers!
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